#05: Midtown - on the early years, Mark Trombino, Blink-182, Butch Walker, Drive Through Records and being excellent to each other
Driven by a desire to create honest and influential music, Midtown formed in the fall of ‘98 while freshmen at Rutgers University. A meteoric rise to success would follow, including 3 studio albums, countless sold-out live shows, and a firm place amidst the legends of alt-rock and pop-punk. Basement gigs became international tours and arena shows alongside friends like blink-182, Fall Out Boy, Dashboard Confessional, Thrice and more. Their eclectic musical style, political consciousness, and DIY ethics put them on the map in the early 2000s and these same qualities have kept them a staple of their genre to old and new fans alike. Across three albums – Forget What You Know (2004), Living Well Is The Best Revenge (2002), and Save The World Lose The Girl (2000) – the band has amassed millions of streams and still boasts hundreds of thousands of monthly listeners, a testament to their influence and staying power.
Midtown Is:
Gabe Saporta – lead vocals, bass guitar
Tyler Rann – vocals, guitar
Heath Saraceno – vocals, guitars
Rob Hitt - drums
Learn more about Midtown at:
Click here to find OTHER EPISODES | LINKS | TRANSCRIPTION | EXTRA SHOW NOTES
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Note: This episode was recorded on 10.6.22
ABOUT KILLAH CORTEZ
Killah Cortez is a music producer, musician, and songwriter based in Los Angeles. Specializing in alternative/indie/pop, Cortez is richly creative with a remarkable gift of enhancing projects and taking listeners on a journey.
Cortez has also landed reviews from The New York Times, Rolling Stone, Lyrical Lemonade, and Paste Magazine with his compositions appearing in commercials and tv shows like "Younger".
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“Songs For The Apocalypse” Playlist On Spotify
LINKS | TRANSCRIPTION | EXTRA SHOW NOTES
Today’s Episode is sponsored by New Monkey Studio
Living Well Is The Best Revenge (2002)
Save The World Lose The Girl (2000)
Take Off Your Pants and Jacket
Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure
Killah Cortez: Welcome back to the Killah Cortez Show. The following is an interview with Heath Saraceno from the band Midtown. Driven by a desire to create honest and influential music. Midtown formed in the fall of '98 while freshmen at Rutgers University, a meteoric rise to success would follow, including three studio albums, countless sold out shows and a firm place amidst the legends of alt rock and pop punk. Basement gigs became international tours alongside friends like Blink 182, Fall Out Boy, Dashboard Confessional, Thrice and more. Their eclectic musical style, political consciousness and DIY work ethic put them on the map in the early 2000's, and these same qualities have kept them a staple of their genre to new and old fans alike across three albums. “Forget What you Know”, “Living Well Is The Best Revenge” and “Save the World, Lose the Girl”. The band has amassed millions of streams and still boasts hundreds of thousands of monthly listeners. Midtown is Gabe Saporta, Tyler Rann, Heath Seracino and Rob Hitt. Midtown has long been a favorite band of mine and I was so excited to sit down and have this conversation with Heath. He was so earnest and just so chill to talk to. But also, you know, he he was very intense and very honest. And I appreciate that. I appreciate that his story and Midtown's story wasn't sugar coated. And I think I think it's good to hear for all artists that are listening new and old. Like, I think anyone who's who's starting out, this is awesome because you get to hear what it's like to go through the ups and downs of a band that on the surface, you know, looks, looks like they, you know, they were doing amazing things. They legitimately were doing amazing things. And like seeing how hard it is still is to survive, even when you're at even when you're at those heights of success, the battles that you're still going through. I think it's I think it's pretty eye opening. So you'll be able to find show notes. Full transcript of this interview in the description below. I also have a discord where you can jump in and chat anything Killah Cortez, chat things about this episode. This episode will be up on YouTube later on today or tomorrow. It won't have music in between the segments if like if you're listening on Spotify. But yeah, you can check that out. And interweaved in this interview is songs from my Songs for the Apocalypse playlist. So on this particular episode, Midtown chose about 15 songs that they were heavily influenced by. And so that's all interspersed within this playlist. And so you can also find that link in the description below. So anyways, sit back, relax and enjoy this interview with Heath Saraceno from the band Midtown.
Killah Cortez: The opening track on "Save the World, Lose the Girl", "Just Rock & Roll" has that iconic vocal intro. How did that come about?
Heath Saraceno: So we we had we always had that part in the song at the end of the song in the Bridge. And when we were about to record it, Mark Trombino was like, "Man, it'd be so cool if you started the song with that.". And we were all just like, Nah, I don't know. I don't think so. You know, it's kind of kind of like too much yelling right away. And he's like, No, I think I think we should try it. And we didn't try it. And then at some point we were done with the song and he was like, Here, listen to the song. And he just like, kind of flew it in. In the beginning. We're just like, Fuck, this is why you hire a producer, you know? Like he just he heard that at the end of the song and knew that it should be at the beginning because it was such a strong hook. And I think after he demoed it, we ended up recording it that way too,
Killah Cortez: Right, oh so it was like the at the very end outro. It was just that, it wasn't at the beginning.
Heath Saraceno: Yeah, He was like, What if you all sang that? We're like, Oh, okay, we'll give it a shot.
Killah Cortez: Dude, so cool. I was at a I was at Riot Fest. And when you guys broke into that, it was just so sick. The crowd was pumped.
Heath Saraceno: Oh, awesome. Yeah. Riot Fest was a ton of fun.
Killah Cortez: Yeah, man,
Heath Saraceno: We've never we'd never played Riot Fest. I don't think that it was around when we were a band initially, so it was nice to it was nice to be included. I mean, Riot Fest has made itself into like such an event. I mean. They hosted that Jawbreaker reunion that first Jawbreaker Reunion, and then they got the Misfits to come back together. So they've always kind of had their finger on the pulse of like, what people want. We're just happy to be included in that list. I mean, we got to see Jimmy Eat World, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Sleater-Kinney, Linda Linda's is Linda Linda's. There's just like our friends Juliana Theory. It was great. It was a great day.
Killah Cortez: Dude, I missed that Juliana Theory set. I was in the Jimmy World crowd for a second, but I'll say on the scenes I was part of an of a Midtown exodus. it was a conflicting times. It was a bunch of us that went over.
Heath Saraceno: I heard that there was a thing that happened because they played from 5 to 6 and we started at 5:50.
Killah Cortez: Yeah.
Heath Saraceno: That like after they were done, it was just like this wave, this sea of people coming over to see us, which was awesome. Awesome to see. But it was really cool for us because we got to watch them play as we're getting our stuff on the stage and warming up and like getting ready to go on, you get to watch your favorite band play. I mean, there's no better arrangement than that.
Killah Cortez: So back to the the that like "Save the World Lose the Girl" era was that during this period that you like personally were doing that that crazy schedule of like school, work, band practice and like sometimes band practice like 2 - 5 in the morning.
Heath Saraceno: Yeah, it was before that that we were doing, like, those super late band practices.
Killah Cortez: Wow.
Heath Saraceno: That was like when we first started writing songs, I think. I think we had done the EP by then. No, I don't know. The first practice that I ever went to with Midtown was at like 11:00 at night until 2:00 in the morning. And I was like, Wow, these guys really know how to party.
Killah Cortez: Set the precedent.
Heath Saraceno: Yeah, it's like, okay, I guess. I mean, I have to be at work at 10:00 in the morning so I can make that work. But yeah, we were we were living in New Brunswick. We had a house on Hamilton Street right across from the grease trucks, and the three of them were going to Rutgers. And I just lived there for a little while until my car died. And then I had to move home. But I was working at the video store. I had already dropped out of college. I decided to stop going to college, like right before Midtown started. And then when Midtown started and we decided we were going to tour a lot, I was like, okay, well, at least I don't have to drop out of college anymore because I already did it. So my dad's already disappointed in me, so I might as well.
Killah Cortez: You had nothing to lose.
Heath Saraceno: I'll do something now. Yeah, exactly.
Killah Cortez: Well, how many? So how many years? Ah, How long would you have been a band before you went into record Save the World?
Heath Saraceno: So we started the band in September of '98. And we recorded. Did we record? We recorded in the summer of 2000. So it was like. Could it have only been a year?
Killah Cortez: Wow.
Heath Saraceno: Like less than a year.
Killah Cortez: That's pretty quick. And there was an EP in between that.
Heath Saraceno: Yeah, we we went into we recorded the summer of '99. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. We recorded the summer of '99 and then it came out in like February of 2000.
Killah Cortez: The work ethic held true
Heath Saraceno: Yeah, we were like, Yeah, absolutely. We just, you know, we played our asses off. We played shows every weekend in New Jersey and then we started touring. I mean, we didn't take days off, you know, you can't afford it. So you just play every day and try and find somewhere to sleep.
Killah Cortez: So when I got introduced to Midtown, I actually went to go see a Blink show. I saw you guys at Honda Center, and I'm pretty sure it would have been you guys. Blink and I feel like Jimmy Eat World was playing that run, and I think.
Heath Saraceno: It was probably New Found Glory.
Killah Cortez: It might have been. Well, one of the bands canceled and and I think I couldn't I don't remember if you guys are already on the bill or if you were replacing someone on the bill. But I saw you open and I remember that was the first show where I was like, Holy shit, who's this band?
Heath Saraceno: So that was the summer of 2001. I guess we had done some dates on that Blink tour. It was Blink, New Found Glory and we were opening. We played like North Carolina, Texas, Florida, a couple other random spots. I think we're on that tour for like two weeks with them, and then we went to California to record "Living Well Is The Best Revenge". And then while we were recording 9/11 happened and Sum 41 was on the tour and they were the opening act. And when 9/11 happened, they were like, We got to go home. So they went back. They went home and then Blink needed a band to fill in on the California dates and we were on the same label as them and they knew that we're out in California. So they asked us to come out and, you know, reprise our opening role on the tour. And we're like, Of course, no, no problem.
Killah Cortez: How was it touring with Blink?
Heath Saraceno: It was great, man. They were so awesome. That was like, you know, I was I was a big Blink fan. I mean, in high school I played one of their songs in high school talent show and like.
Killah Cortez: Which song?
Heath Saraceno: I had. Dick Lips.
Killah Cortez: Yeah, dude
Heath Saraceno: Actually, it's a great song. I just always I always loved their band and they had just put out Take Off Your Pants and Jacket, which was a great record. And I loved Enema of the State and Dude Ranch and all that. So we were just like so stoked to be on tour with them, but they were like a real fucking band.
Killah Cortez: Yeah?
Heath Saraceno: They like, they had like a whole production. They had like all these people working for them, playing amphitheaters and arenas. They were huge and I'd never seen anything on that scale before. So watching them in there, their operation was really like mind blowing. Like this is this can happen. Like bands can get this big. Wow.
Killah Cortez: And like, 24 hour catering status?
Heath Saraceno: Yeah, Catering. Yeah, totally catering. And like, your picture on the laminate. It was wild, man. It was great.
Killah Cortez: Was that was that the tour that they had? The the giant flaming fuck behind them?
Heath Saraceno: It sure was. Yeah. That was the best stage prop ever
Killah Cortez: Dude, So I'm, I probably was I think I was in 10th grade when that came out or like that tour. And I remember being there, it was like the first show that I was allowed to go to with my friends. And I remember being there with my my best friend, like top row Honda Center. And as soon as they did that, was it Planet of the Apes? Dun dun dun dun dun dun. And then the the flaming fuck came up. I just saw my peripheral. Just a million parents stand up with their kids and just start walking out.
Killah Cortez: So you worked with legendary rock producer Mark Trombino on "Save The World, Lose The Girl" and "Living Well is the Best Revenge". What was it like working with him, and in retrospect, what were some of the things that that you think makes him such a great producer?
Heath Saraceno: Wow, what a question.... Mark. Mark really cared about performance. And not like did you get every note right performance? But like, was there like some sort of, like, emotion or power in your performance, especially with the drums and the vocals? Like he he made Rob beat the shit out of his drums. And like, Mark, Mark's a drummer, and Mark is an incredible drummer. Mark's played in, you know, he was in Rocket From the Crypt. He's a great fucking drummer, and it was a little bit intimidating for Rob to be a drummer that he was recording because he was so great at his instrument. But he he kept telling Rob, hit it harder, hit it harder. Stay on time. Hit it harder. You know, and Mark would come in like, fine tune the drums every once in a while, and he'd hit it. And Rob would be like, Wow, it doesn't sound the same when I do it. Then when he does it, he has such a strong hit. You know, Mark is just an incredible drummer, but he also had some really good ideas about song structure and arrangement. He didn't let us get too carried away with the metal stuff, which was nice. He kind of pulled a lot of that stuff back. But he was like the first producer that we worked with. You know, we had worked with a couple of people before who were great, but Mark had like gold records, you know, and it was like a different world. He showed up to the studio with like a rack full of gear that was like his gear that he needed to make his tones, you know, like, this is a guy who took it super professionally, but he also kept it light at times. He would know, like when you have to, like, kind of ease off and maybe take an early day or maybe don't push this guy too hard today because maybe you had a hard day yesterday or something. He was really good at navigating that with with us part. Part of being a producer is being like a psychologist in a way. You know, you have to listen to people and figure out how to get the best out of them. He was really good at that.
Killah Cortez: What how long was like each record recording time? Like a couple. A couple of days? A couple of weeks?
Heath Saraceno: We had planned to do "Save The World, Lose The Girl" In ten days. Recording and mixing.
Killah Cortez: Was there pre-production involved in that or just like?
Heath Saraceno: There was a little bit of pre-production. We had recorded some demos at a friend's house and then I think we did like. One or two practices with Mark and he was like, It's punk rock record. We'll just go in there and we'll record it. And then we started doing the pre-production and he was like, All right, maybe, maybe we need some more time with the studio. Because, you know, we had ideas about layering and like harmonies and things like that. And, you know, this is our first real record. So we were not very proficient, didn't really know how to record. Rob had never played with a metronome before. Oh, damn. So he was learning how to play with a metronome while recording, and that was really hard. But he figured it out and he got through it. He did a great job. And, you know, Auto-Tune was like, there. It was like a thing, but it wasn't what it is now. Yeah. So, you know, processing Auto-Tune for, like, harmonies and things like that took a long time. And yeah, quantizing on the drums took a long time because the computers were so much slower back then. So I think I think the first record took we planned on doing it in ten. I think it took like 21 days and then we had three or four days of mixing.
Killah Cortez: Wow.
Heath Saraceno: And then living well was like, I feel like we were in California for like three and a half or four months, you know, between pre-production, recording and mixing.
Killah Cortez: Yeah,
Heath Saraceno: It was a long time.
Killah Cortez: Wow, That's so funny you say that, because. No, those records are both so different. And when I listen back to Save the World, I definitely get this this more analog feeling like I would have believed. I would have believed that it would have been like a like a first record, like Band in the Room vibe.
Heath Saraceno: Yeah, well, we did a lot of that to tape, but then we just corrected it. Yeah. So, you know, like, we still got the warmth of the tape on the drums and the vocals, but we were not a band that could have done a band in the room thing at that time. But we did basically do a band in the room thing on "Forget What You Know"
Killah Cortez: Mm hmm. Cool. We'll get to that record. I have questions on that one.
Heath Saraceno: Oh, you want to wait on that one? Okay. Because I have things to say about that one.
Killah Cortez: I have a Yeah, I have a chronology here we're going to go through.
Heath Saraceno: Okay. I'm sorry. I did not mean to jump the gun.
Killah Cortez: No, no. So what I do want to bring up is, like, one thing that I always personally noticed about Midtown, and I think it's one of the things that really sets you guys apart sonically from my contemporaries is, well, two things. The three vocals up front, very distinct. And then the other thing that I always noticed was the rhythm section of the band. Like you always had these really interesting rhythms, like a lot of starts and stops, and then you guys would go into like these triplet fills on the guitars and just cool things that I felt like a lot of the other bands at the time weren't doing. Was was that something intentional? Is it just something that came out as you guys got together? How did that all come about?
Heath Saraceno: I would say it's a mix, a mix of those two, because we were obsessed with rhythm, like we were obsessed with kick drum patterns, like the fast beat drum pattern, like the NOFX beat. And then like if you listen to like a band like Lifetime, as you know, there's like a kick missing here and there and it's got more of like a, a little bit more urgency because it's not as galloping. We were obsessed with that type of shit. We were obsessed with, like picking patterns. Well, we were also obsessed with, like, Saves The Day and like, they took very good care to be consistent with their picking patterns, their kick drum patterns and all the rhythms in their songs. And we also listened to, like a lot of different types of music. I wasn't just punk rock, you know, listen to like a lot of hip hop and stuff. So there was there were a lot of rhythmic influences that we that we pulled from, and we like to kind of change it up a little bit. And if you keep going on the same rhythm for too long, it's fucking boring. Yeah. So we like to do like, you know, rhythmic changes and different accents and syncopations and stuff like that. That was always a pretty big part of our band.
Killah Cortez: Dude, super cool. So to the other point, having the three singers (correction: they all sing! ) Up front, how did you guys go about deciding who's saying what when recording the songs?
Heath Saraceno: It was always different. You know, we all we all sang. I mean, Gabe didn't really sing that much before he was in Midtown. He sang a little bit in his previous band, and then he wanted to sing more in Midtown. And he was also like the main songwriter. Tyler was the lead singer of our previous band. I was I always did backgrounds and harmonies and stuff like that. So we we knew going into it that all three of us wanted to sing, you know, to some degree or another. But as far as how to figure out who's singing what. I mean, early on it was more of trying to be trying to get everyone in like, like, like, like a round table arrangement. We were really into that, but. Some things in terms of like the story, like the flow of a story of a song. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to have like two people. Singing together if it's like a more personal, more personal story. Right, right, right. Or. Or it should come from one narrator. And other times, the person who sang the song was decided by what kind of a song it was. Mm hmm. So it was always different.
Killah Cortez: Very cool approach.
Killah Cortez: Full disclosure, "Living Well Is The Best Revenge" is one of the records that really inspired me to get into music as a career and.
Heath Saraceno: Wow.
Killah Cortez: And I thought, it's like it still sounds so good. Like it was that it was that CD for me that like when I would get a new car stereo, I'd EQ the car stereo to that CD, and then and then everything else would be measured against it.
Heath Saraceno: So thank you so much.
Killah Cortez: Literally chasing those guitar tones for years. So anyways, I know though, that that record, I mean, from interviews, I know that that record has a complicated past with the band. In retrospect, when the band looks at that era of Midtown and now that you don't have the pressure of like an MCA trying to manufacture a giant hit, how do you feel the band looks back at that record now? And are the feelings still complicated? Does or does everyone look back at it and be like, Wow, we made some good shit?
Heath Saraceno: No, I think I think now we look back on it very fondly, especially the guitar tone. Like, I don't remember what we used on that and it's been bothering me for years because that was my favorite guitar tone I've ever gotten on any record. But no, I mean. In as you look back at decisions that you've made or things that you've been a part of, the farther away from it you are, the more perspective you have. Right. And I think. You know, a lot of those things that like when we put out that record, maybe it didn't sit too well with us or maybe we had wanted to change. I can't even tell you what those things are now, because now that that record is just that record, I'm not thinking about that individual decision where, like, we could have done this, but we did that instead. You know? No, I look back on that and I think we all look back on that really fondly.
Killah Cortez: Let's fast forward to 2004. You're working with another legendary producer, Butch Walker on "Forget What You Know". I read that a lot of that record was actually self recorded. And I also remember on my own personal first listens, thinking like "Damn, Midtown got really dark and gritty". What were those sessions like on the on that record? And does this one still remain the band's favorite or like a true representation of what you all were envisioning for the sound of Midtown?
Heath Saraceno: I think that I think that collectively it is our favorite. You know, we're always trying to put more songs from that record in the set list, and we have more fun playing some of those songs and some of the earlier songs. But when we made that time, it was a dark period. I mean, we were trying to get out of our deal with Drive-Through Records because we were we had been on MCA for living well, and we reverted back to drive through when MCA dropped us and we didn't want to do another record for drive thru. So we. Essentially couldn't put out a record for a while. We were stuck not being able to record. And we didn't really tour. We were thinking about just quitting the band and starting a new band because our previous band was attached to this label we didn't want to be a part of. So it was a dark period, but it gave us the time to actually focus on writing songs and we practiced a lot. We got together like like we were going to work. I mean, we would go to Gabe's dad's house. Probably like four or five days a week. We'd get there around noon and we would play and go home around six or seven. We put in a lot of hours down there.
Killah Cortez: Wow.
Heath Saraceno: I mean, we transformed the basement to be like our practice studio. And then, you know, when we had enough songs and we we thought that they were at a good place. We had our friends come in and record them on like a little mini disc eight track thing. And some of those songs we demoed like two or three times. And while we were recording and writing, we're, as I said, actively trying to get out of a record deal. We got we had new management who was trying to get us into a new record deal, and I guess labels were hesitant to sign us because we didn't really have a product. So we, you know, our manager managed Butch Walker as well and played some of the songs for Butch. He really liked it. And he said that he would produce the record for us on spec, which means when we get paid, he gets paid. So we went down there, we did the full record like we what do we do? Like 14 songs. And that was we did that in like. We recorded that album in, I think two weeks, maybe two and a half weeks of just straight recording. And like Rob did his drums, maybe two or three days.
Killah Cortez: Mm hmm.
Heath Saraceno: Rob was so good at that point because we had practiced our asses off and we we went over like every bit and piece, every strum, every hit, every accent, every pause was, like, perfectly planned out. There was no question when we got down there. So Rob just went through and just hammered out his drums, killed it, And then Gabe did his bass really quickly because he knew all the songs, because we we'd practiced our asses off. And then Tyler and I set up in the same room, and he was ten feet from me. And we were just looking at each other, playing the songs together.
Killah Cortez: Dude
Heath Saraceno: We'd never done that before. We'd always, like, taken. Here's your track. And then you double it. And then this guy comes in and does the other part and he doubles it. And it was more of like an assembly line. But this was like, I'm watching him play, he's watching me play, and we're super tight with each other. And we didn't really do any overdubs like we just played through the song. We would do like two or three takes of it and pick the best one and move on. Yeah. I think on that whole record, besides the song, like "Until It Kills", which is like a bunch of different tones, I think there are like four overdubs.
Killah Cortez: Wow. Yeah. You know, it's crazy.
Heath Saraceno: The rest of it is just left right?
Killah Cortez: What's crazy? And I and I just thought about it while you're talking and explaining this scenario to me is like. It that that record to me almost felt like a year or two ahead of its time because like, Rock was about to change to, I think, a friendlier format for that sound. And it was just a little early because, yeah, when I think about it, it would have like it totally fits with like what the Strokes were doing and all of that. Like it's, it's definitely in that ballpark of like, it's like, it's like lo fi ish, but it's like mid fi.
Heath Saraceno: Mid-fi, I like that.
Killah Cortez: I heard in another interview with Gabe that when Midtown took its first hiatus is that it was because the band felt that people didn't listen to "Forget What You Know". And now, looking back on that, with 2020 hindsight, does that still feel accurate or has time changed those feelings?
Heath Saraceno: Uh, yeah, I think people don't don't really get the record. I don't know if they do now either, honestly. But I mean, we were so proud of it. We put so much work into it and really we really love the songs. We thought we put out a really great collection of songs and we had this chance on this major label and they put us they pushed us to radio, you know, they put "Give it Up" on radio and they gave it a week and it didn't hit. And then they canned it and then that was it. That was literally it. Like they said, Yeah, you can do another another, you know, another video, but we're not going to pay for it. You guys can keep touring. But we're not going to give you a tour support, you know.
Killah Cortez: Wow.
Heath Saraceno: You can continue to be a band if you want, but like. You know, it didn't work.
Killah Cortez: Wow. What record label did that one come out on?
Heath Saraceno: Columbia,
Killah Cortez: Columbia... Man.
Heath Saraceno: So we felt we just didn't understand. Like this was like the best thing that we had ever done and it wasn't appreciated. And we felt like, Why the fuck are we doing this? Like, if we're like, No one cares, you know? So. And, you know, at that time, there had been like a whole new breed of bands and there was like a lot of heat on a lot of them. And other bands that we had taken on tour had blown up. And, you know, we were just sitting there like, we're a good band, too, you know? Yeah, why aren't people coming to our shows? So, you know, that got pretty dark and then we pulled the plug.
Killah Cortez: Wow. Was that was that a pretty mutual decision?
Heath Saraceno: I think so. You know, the. The question was, are we going to stop being a band or are we going to do another record? And I think that we just put so much into "Forget What You Know", that we felt like we couldn't do any better than that. Maybe, maybe not. That we couldn't do any better than that. But like, how do we top this? Like, how do we. Make something that we're going to be even more proud of than this record. And I don't think that any of us had that answer.
Killah Cortez: For what it's worth, one of my favorite records. I mean, it's to me, I love all the Midtown records, that one. They're just different flavors. And that one definitely has its own unique sound. I do have a question on that record that I thought of while you were talking is so for "so long as we keep our bodies numb and safe", you got that that outro where just like it's like this looping vocal canon. How did that come about? And like, what was it like assembling that whole thing?
Heath Saraceno: Oh, just a lot of copying and pasting and, you know, bringing things in, taking things out. But that's about it. I mean, we we love Jimmy Eat World, you know, And “Goodbye Sky Harbor” was just such an amazing piece of music that we're like, you know, this end part here as we're playing it. Like when we were writing the song, we're thinking we just love playing this end part. What if this just kept going on forever and ever? So that's that's what we did. We just let it run.
Killah Cortez: Dude.... Love it. What's an Easter egg or a secret thing on one of the Midtown records that nobody would ever know unless they.
Heath Saraceno: Oh, there's a lot of them in the liner notes to "Living Well Is The Best Revenge"
Killah Cortez: uh-huh.
Heath Saraceno: There's. I have a copy of it right here. let me see if can tell you some. So I need I need a flashlight here. So if you look at the back of "living, well, is the best revenge". Do you have a copy of the CD with you?
Killah Cortez: I don't have it with me.
Heath Saraceno: Okay, well, next time you do and you look at the back where the songs are listed underneath it, it says Produced and Mixed by Mark Trombino, 2002, MCA Records, USA, distributed by Universal Music. All rights reserved. Anyone denying the existence of robots may be a robot themselves. That's a fun little Easter egg we put in there. There's some in the liner notes to something about the capital of Nebraska being Lincoln. Where the fuck did we write that? Someone wrote. Don't believe we wrote. Don't believe everything you read in here. I don't know if that was a statement or not. That might have. That might have been some sort of a statement. Special thanks to the people in the following bands for being amazing and supportive. And then we list a bunch of bands. And then the last thing we write is the capital of Nebraska is Lincoln. So those are some fun. Little Easter eggs, musical Easter eggs. I don't know if I can think of any musical Easter eggs.
Killah Cortez: Okay, Well.
Heath Saraceno: Oh my God. I'm surprised at how many people are smoking in the artwork for this album. Each. Let me see. One, two, three, four, five. Six seven. Wow. Seven people are smoking in that bar scene. That's wild. People don't smoke anymore
Killah Cortez: Dude, before its time
Heath Saraceno: I mean some people do. And that's awesome.
Killah Cortez: Like when Tom and Jerry were smoking.
Heath Saraceno: Yeah, I know, right?
Killah Cortez: What was the best or most worthwhile investment Midtown made? And it could have been an investment of money, time, energy or other resource. And how did you decide to make that investment?
Heath Saraceno: The best investment we made, I mean an in ear rack. Honestly in between living well and forget what you know, we started seeing bands pop up with in ear racks and have like in-ear monitors while they were playing. And we always thought that, like, if we could hear ourselves, we would sing so much better live. And and yeah we did. So we got we bought an in ear rack rack, when we got our advance from Columbia. And that made playing live shows so much easier and so much more fun. And we didn't blow out our voices as much because we weren't screaming all the time. I would say that was the best investment that we made as a band.
Killah Cortez: Cool. I'm glad to hear you say that, because I totally am on that kick. Yeah, it's.
Heath Saraceno: It makes such a difference.
Killah Cortez: Makes such a difference. Only thing about it is you have to have someone who can actually mix it. Mix it. Right.
Heath Saraceno: That's true. But it's different nowadays. Like, can't you get a system that you can make? You can do your own mix, like on an iPad or something?
Killah Cortez: Totally, totally. Yeah. It's a lot easier now for my stuff. I just have like a pre mix already made and then I just the sound guy only has to send me vocal.
Heath Saraceno: Awesome.
Killah Cortez: Have the guys ever done a band ayahuasca trip with Gabe?
Heath Saraceno: Not the whole band, but I don't. That's not my story to tell.
Killah Cortez: Oh, damn, That's a secret. Okay. What's it like going from playing venues like the Palace in Town Brook Jersey, to arenas, then essentially taking 17 years off with, like, a mini reunion in the middle to playing again to huge festival and arena crowds. What's that? What's that whole ride like? That sounds crazy to me.
Heath Saraceno: It is crazy. And I don't think that we'd be able to do it without technology, you know? Now you can like send things back and forth to each other so much easier. Like if you want to try a different transition song, you know, I can do it on logic and send it to the guy and say, Hey, what do you think? And we can all learn it and prepare. And then when we go to practice, we just all know it. You know, we can be much more prepared for practice, basically. And I mean, your question was, what's it like going from playing small venues to playing big venues? I think and it is awesome because if you can play at a small venue and sound good and play your songs and have fun, then you're going to be even better at a big venue. Yeah, we we played a show at Crossroads in August, I think August 10th we played that show and then. We practiced a couple of more times and then we played with, oh, then we did Riot Fest like 20,000 people.
Killah Cortez: insane crowd. Those photos are nuts.
Heath Saraceno: Insane crowd. So it's like it's it's the same thing. I mean, I think my answer is it's the same thing. As long as there's a good there's good energy there. There's no difference between playing in front of 250 kids and 20,000. I had just as much fun playing that show at Crossroads because everyone who was there was so psyched as I did playing the in Florida last week with My Chemical Romance. It's just a great vibe. If the crowd is there for it, you're going to have a good time no matter how big they are.
Killah Cortez: Nice. Yeah, I think I think my question is more so getting that like you guys kind of climbed pretty Everest ish climb the first time around and then it's kind of like you didn't do anything and then suddenly, like, you almost didn't have to do the climb. Like you're just at Everest now.
Heath Saraceno: Oh, yeah, that's really crazy, too, because we weren't expecting this kind of a response at all. You know, first off, we're not responsible for selling any tickets on the My Chem tour. They're just incredible people and offered to have us play with them. So there's no pressure on that. And we're like, let's let's put on a show of our own in New Jersey and, you know, play all our songs, play as much as we can do, like one headlining show at Starland Ballroom, and that was all it was going to be, but it sold out in minutes. So put another one on and that one sold out in minutes. Again, we're like, Well, maybe we have something here. Like maybe like there are people that want to see us play now. Like, how the fuck did this happen? So we decided to put some more shows out and we have, you know, we, we signed on for Riot Fest and Furnace Fest and then these four other headlining shows at the end of the year. And it's wild. I don't think that any of us were expecting that response at all, blown away by it.
Killah Cortez: Well, you know, it's like they say, absence makes the heart grow fonder, right?
Heath Saraceno: They do say that. Yeah, you're right.
Killah Cortez: How did this tour opportunity with My Chem and The Academy Is come about and how have the shows been?
Heath Saraceno: So the My Chem thing came up. Like it was kind of like a long, slow train, right? For about a year. I would say it's probably about a year before I was yeah, maybe late 2019. Tyler and I and Rob and Gabe, we got on like, a group chat and. Tyler was like, We should practice and get together and play the songs. Maybe, maybe play a show. He's like, My kids are starting to ask me about the band, and they saw some videos on YouTube They want to see, you know, they want to see me play before I'm too old. And everyone was like, Yeah, that's that's a really good idea. But, you know, it's going to take so much to like. Get back together to do something. Gabe's in California. You know, Rob's in Brooklyn. Tyler and I are in different parts of New Jersey, and none of us are really close by each other anymore. But a couple of months of talking about it, we were. Rob, Tyler and I were all just like, Well, you know, we could get together after work one night at a practice studio and see, you know, see what happens. Just play through the songs and have fun. So we did that. We booked a practice practice space studio in Hoboken on like a Wednesday night. Tyler and Rob took the train in from from New York, and I drove to Hoboken after work and met them there with the instruments. And we got together and we played and it was a mess, but it was so much fun just to play with them again. And I think we all left there and we were just like, This is so great. You know, some people have like a bowling league that they do, or they're in like, like a pool league. They, they shoot pool with their friends and they go to the bar on like a Thursday night. This could be like our our beer league. Yeah. So we're like, let's, let's make a plan. Let's do this, you know, every couple of weeks. And then, like, the next day, the world shut down because of COVID. So after that, we were home. And the whole time we're home, we're just thinking like, this is never going to happen again. We're never going to be able to play again. Like, what the fuck is going to happen with this, you know, with this virus? We had no idea at first what was going to happen. And then we're all locked inside our houses for months and months and months, and you start picking up that that old dusty guitar in the corner after a while. And then the conversations resumed, like, one day, this is going to be okay. You know, one day there's going to be live music again. People are going to go out, they're going to have a good time. We should think about doing something then and as that. Got closer. You know, you started talking to more friends and Tyler called Mikey out of the blue one day or Mikey called Tyler, and they were talking about, you know, the old days and shows we play together in things. And Tyler told Mikey that we actually had a practice right before everything shut down. And we're thinking about playing a show when everything gets back online. And then Gabe saw Mikey a couple weeks or so later, and Mikey mentioned to Gabe, Hey, I heard you guys are going to be playing some shows. and he was like, What are you talking about? He's like, Oh, was I not supposed to say anything? I talked to Tyler, and Tyler said that they're practicing and we're going to be you guys are going to be playing shows. And he's like, you know, if you do, would you want to play on the My Chem tour? When we go when we go back out on tour? And how do you say no to that? Yeah, you know, like there's no you just can't say no. That's like such a great opportunity. And it's so kind of them to offer us that spot. A band who's like, defunct, you know, like that's a huge gamble that they took, honestly, because we could have just like, not practiced, not, not put any work in and just gone up in like some shitty bar band. But we have too much respect for ourselves to do that. We put in a lot of work. And, man, it's so much fun.
Killah Cortez: Dude. That's so cool, man. Yeah, I mean, it's like, you got plugged in back for the love, and then somehow the universe kind of concocted a little thing. And it. It's a weird way of correcting, correcting some things.
Heath Saraceno: It does. It does. And I think, you know, when your intentions are pure. Good things will happen, right? We just wanted to get together and play after work because we like each other. We like playing music together. And we had a really we had a lot of great memories attached to playing these songs with each other, and we wanted that connection again. We just and if we didn't play any shows. That would have been fine because we just wanted to play together again.
Killah Cortez: A listener from Tick Tock had a question. Has this run this time around been more fulfilling than like the first big run together?
Heath Saraceno: The first big run? You mean like when we were an original band? Yeah. Like before we broke up the first time.
Killah Cortez: Yeah.
Heath Saraceno: I think so. I think so. Because now, you know, there's. There's a lot of nostalgia attached to it for people, and there's a lot of emotions. It's a lot of memories that people have and that we have about playing these songs and, you know, being on stage together and also just hanging out together, but also now like we have. You know, like our families can see it. You know, like my my kids who honestly couldn't give two shits that I'm doing this, like, they are not impressed at all. But I'm going to take them to the fucking shows and I'm going to show them this is this is what I do. This is what your dad used to do, and this is what I love doing, and I want to share that with them. So to me, this is the most meaningful. You know, period of of Midtown of its whole existence because I get to share it with them.
Killah Cortez: That's awesome, man. They're going to go to the New Jersey shows.
Heath Saraceno: Yeah, I couldn't get them to go to the My Chem show, but I'm dragging them to the Sayreville shows.
Killah Cortez: They don't know because they don't know. They they they see you, you're playing like a bar show right now in their mind.
Heath Saraceno: They have no idea. I came back from Riot Fest and I was like, Hey, I want to show you a video. And I would like show them videos on my phone. They're like, Why is it so loud?
Killah Cortez: Yeah, why?
Heath Saraceno: Come on, man.
Killah Cortez: Just they're like, But did it blow up on TikTok?
Heath Saraceno: Right, exactly. My my daughter was so impressed when I got to TikTok. Tiktok, I really just got to Tik tok so I can see the ones that Rob puts up on the Midtown account. And one of her friends followed me on Tik Tok, and that's when I knew I had to get rid of it.
Killah Cortez: It just gots to go.
Heath Saraceno: Yeah, this has got to go. This is off my off my phone.
Killah Cortez: So I saw I saw in a previous interview that. That Midtown felt that the whole point of the scene was for the bigger bands to help smaller bands come up for all the people in bands that are listening that are currently part of like their own scene, they're part of growing a thing. What was Midtown's approach and what advice would you give to those bands trying to navigate their their scene and the music industry?
Heath Saraceno: Wow. That's a good one. I mean, you're right. We were always taken care of by bands who had who would come before us. You know, like early on, this band BigWig from New Jersey really took us under their wing and they would help. You know, we talk about gear with them songwriting and playing live and. And touring and. They helped us. In so many ways. And then later on, when other bands would come around, we would try to offer the same help and try to do anything that we could for for the next generation. And that's really, really important. I mean, that's how you sustain like the ecosystem of a band environment, you know, and the music scene. What advice would I give bands? I would. My advice used to be. Don't do it. But that's not my advice anymore. My advice now is, you know, if you're going to do it, just have fun. Just do it because you love doing it. And the minute that it stops being fun. Stop doing it.
Killah Cortez: So you have two West Coast shows coming up with My Chem in October and then shows on the East Coast in December. What's maybe the next thing for Midtown?
Heath Saraceno: Silence.
Killah Cortez: Silence. Making the hearts grow fonder once again.
Heath Saraceno: Yeah, I think we're going to go back under our rock after December 10th.
Killah Cortez: Okay.
Heath Saraceno: we'll see
Killah Cortez: And if Midtown could have one gigantic billboard anywhere with anything on it, what would it say?
Heath Saraceno: I mean, there are so many inside jokes that we would put up there, but they would not be appropriate for a billboard. Think of it.
Killah Cortez: Or maybe.
Heath Saraceno: I mean, we would probably have to quote the best movie of all time, Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, and just say to everyone, be excellent to each other. I think that's what we would say to everyone. I think that's the only thing that you can say.
Killah Cortez: I love that. Very wholesome. Heath, thank you so much for coming on the show. I'll direct everyone where they can find Midtown. Is there any parting words you'd have for any fans listening?
Heath Saraceno: You have a couple more chances to see us before we go under our rock. So if you are on the East Coast and you'll be around in December, come to Mulcahy's in Long Island on the 9th and the Worcester Palladium on the 10th. That's probably going to be it. So come on out and party with us for now.
Killah Cortez: All right. Thank you again, Heath. And you have a great one.
Heath Saraceno: Thanks. You, too. Appreciate it.
Killah Cortez: And there you go. I just want to give a special thank you to Heath for coming on the show. Special thank you to Midtown. And yeah, I'll I'll post all the links for Midtown in the description below. All their socials. They have a couple of shows left this year. Definitely go check them out. I promise you it's worth it. And I'll also have all of my socials. You can find my music, you can find my discord, you can find my YouTube all in the links below. And you can also find other episodes of the Killah Cortez show in the in the links in the description below. So anyways, thank you for listening and we'll see you soon.